- January 17
Maffew LindeCould you talk about your interest with Barthes?
Anna-Sophie Bergerwell thank you you typed that one out
Maffew LindeRegarding The Fashion System...I understand its been a seminal text for people researching fashion theoretically. But I feel It's also always the first and sometimes only text people refer to, simply because of its title.
Anna-Sophie Bergeroh absolutely so
I think this is one part of my answer
this is why I picked it uo
you know how in art school
people are throwing names,
that vaguely refer to themes and topics
like one would say "BENJAMIN" and vaguely mean pieces of his work
or even just refer to a mood that was created in a lecture one once attended to
these sort of things.
and then in fashion, where, I am sorry to say, people are particularly sloppy about content
intellectual accuracy so to say
so yes, I wanted to know
and I started to more or less succesfully work myself thorugh "the language of fashion"
which is the translation of the german title of the work "die sprache der mode"
I was and still am not familiar with the rest of barthes works. I know what he deals with but I really just got into that one book/text
Anna-Sophie Bergerwhat I liked was exactly the unusual approach, as it is an approach to language, to what role language plays through its role of describing and therefore turning something into a fact- I loved when he disected those fashion journalisme sentences "a little hat with a ribbon is what makes the spring"
Anna-Sophie Bergerso I guess that is what caught my attention. this very question of how something becomes "fashion" fashionable, in trend
and by saying something else drops out
(the hats without ribbons)
me at that point preparing my diploma work and really really trying to go back down down to essentials. to trend as such
thats the story
Maffew Lindetrends of what place?
trend as in
Maffew Lindetrends of where? there are so many trends, or use of that word, trends as WGSN prescribes?
well, all of them, art or design, food or medicine, i consider human interest and cultural directions trends. but specifically for this body of work and barthes fashion trends
or trends within consumer goods
all day objects
Maffew Lindeoh right, is that where your fascination with branding came from? Branding, in terms of its preference for text seem to resonate to what Barthes was trying to get at
i mean, the question, could be what is your fascination with branding?
Anna-Sophie Bergeryes, true, I guess so. of course this creative process is organic, but now that you name it it seems very much that too
branding fascinates me on an abstract level, less luxury branding itself
like a vuitton bag
more like low end branding
or the possibility
that the mere aspect of branding something ( like with my anna-sophie berger tshirts) could generate value
even without it referring to a whole established enterprise
what I am trying to say is that I find it funny that these days, as we are used to branding, one could label or brand without having the thing ready or having it at all, that one would want to brand.
in this scenario though, aren't you branding some other kinda of product that is available to purchase though - like the thing would be 'you', the ideal of anna-sophie berger
Anna-Sophie Bergeryes, best case scenario,
but! what happened actually is that kids would just reblogg on tumblr, I truly think without a notion of what I am, or my work as an artist
simply because it appealed to them as a fashionable cool thing. a tshirt with white typeface
Maffew Linderight, but this becomes part of your branding technique?
Anna-Sophie Bergeroh yes very much so
Maffew Lindeyou choose to have you tumblr i mean
Anna-Sophie Bergeroh yes, i mean, i started it to play
as we all do
but I am way to analytic not to watch closely the processes going on there
I like to find out what things work,
what gets reblogs
when the time is best
if I had time I would start a whole research about it
I also love the inherent unpredictability about it
suddenly something goes viral
and I have absolutely no clue
often things that I dont particularly like,
things with no specific value
but I grow fond of my "TOP POSTS"
i establish a relationship to it, its an image I would never show as part of my work
i think it is in that sense poor work
but I love watching it going through channels
and that is about what happened with the fashion is fast thing
i had this one image, iphone, bad quality, long before my new collection explained this fashion is fast topic
and it just went viral
and I loved that.
no reason behind
like an algorythm
you must know that too
being an internet kid yoursef
Maffew LindeI remember the first designer garment i bought was this hideously boring basic margiela top, but i wanted to buy it because of its history, i didn't care for the top, i cared for the ideal. Is this pernicious or acceptable? And do you *aim* to brand your art?
Anna-Sophie Bergeroh, oh no definately not pernicious
i would say we all have these stories
its not even nostalgic
its admiration and that is what makes consumerisme, I'd say, still supportable. attachement to things
imagine you'd have no attachement
to anything, no ideal values attached
Maffew Lindei dont know, i like it but i also find it corrupt in someway, of course I attach myself to ideals, but when it becomes the *goal* yknow? wrapped up in economics and consumerism as you say. That's why I hate luxury. ..anyway, i like your work a lot, the branding of it serves not as a reminder of your work, but is the work itself which i think is the difference, maybe.
i think I share your critisism
on void luxury consumption
but I would never be that hard on someone buying a piece for its history
I think there is a vast difference between those two approaches
because if we are talking luxury consumption, the problem is that the primar concern of the shopper becomes their interest in an attached value
that I do not approve of,
which is satus defined through costly/luxurious lifestyle
you see I am saying what matters is the attached value
of the one buying
( i actually think this carhatt thing fits hear, i will tell you about it )
Maffew Lindei dont even know if theres void luxury consumption though..it becomes problematic to separate people in these two categories - the buyer who buys for status and the buyer who buys for history. One presumes a passive audience and the other an active. which is why i have trouble with Barthes because, at least in his earlier works, he believed in this dichotomy, between consumer and activist..... like the people who reblog images of yours on the internet without knowing your work just because they think the image looks 'cool' and the people who know what's it all about. who can tell when buying luxury is void or not. i dont think you can. my issue is that extreme luxury exists at all. like if your branded shirts became so culturally rarefied they became the cost of a koons work, i would hate that
i see where your issue with that lies
yes I agree that I am appaled by extreme ends of consumption
or by the question why one could be attracted to such thing
but yes, I think I can categorise and I do
I do position my, subjective but conscious decision, that I make at best morals, over another decision
this is not to make people good and bad
it is simply acknoledging that I think some things better then others. that is creating a system of values
so yes, to me it is relevant if you told me why you wanted something and do take the liberty of judging your reasons as better than others
and I am not trying to say
that if you just explained to me why jeff koons costs such and such
i will say: oh great!
( i am asking immanuel weather he thinks luxury immoral )
Maffew Lindethe reason why i am so fixated on this is because i see a growing amount of fashion practices that operate to masquerade as a luxury label without having the required forms, as you say a brand without any product. and by doing this, by pretending to be a luxury they ultimately aim to critique luxury...but i must say, i fear at times this technique of exaggeration, of overblowing luxury as a method of critique just ends up enforcing luxury as something desirable.
Maffew Lindei am still confused about it though, which is a good thing...like what bernadette corpoeration started with critquing the language of fashion by operating as one from the 'outside' did they essentially just become 'inside' though, and reinforced all the things they were trying to subvert? i feel this type of manoeuvre is growing more and more
Anna-Sophie Bergeroh i think its always been there
been self distructive
through the mere fact that they became public
that is populart
Maffew Lindethats true, its not new, but i guess i just see it more within fashion practices per se
Anna-Sophie Bergeryes, I think your question about the actual value of the sort of "institutional critique" those brands are placing when alluding to luxury is valid
i read this article the other day on mousse
in a nutshell
it also tackles the question of the validity of the critique say dis magazine is placing
if a sort of undirected involvement and playing with a certain style is valid as critique
or weather it just creates another hype
i guess I could redirect that question towards my own work
the show I will be doing
you have just read the press release
essentially I am treating commerce as my subject matter
as fabric for my ideas
and I do not implement or attach direct critique to that
it is mostly observational
i would not call it indulging
Maffew Lindecompletely , this makes sense
Anna-Sophie Bergerbut definately it is woth a discussion
my idea of art normally includes those concepts that deal with things without ouvertly stating why something is wrong
but also that is sort of our time. at least us "internet kids" that we come from societies where criticisme normally is not urgently needed to provide us with things we are missing
Anna-Sophie Bergerwell with my poor words, I guess I am saying,
simply that we are not really busy with activism or open critisisme
in our current art practices
and we also don't enjoy it much when faced with it
this is why I told you about lorna simpson
and I know it might sound like a horrible disclosure
but when I go see her show, I get her, I get her ideas
I see the critique, the values
but I am still bored and I leave
because this litteral approach to all this issue seems outdated to me
so now when I leave
I actually do feel immoral haha
thats the funny part
it always comes back to the question weather art can or should at all change anything
maybe its like my tumblr
i cant predict
Anna-Sophie Bergerso I want to know what your feelings about new york are, apart from obvious excitement, I mean more in a sense of getting deeper into a scene, going places, art events. how is the relation between what you imagined, what you might have hoped to find, how does it feel simply? in relation to your work also maybe.
Maffew Lindefirst let me say i do love it here, i romanticise the city more than any other person i know. on a deeper level - its been interesting to see how art here is not funded by the state or institutions but by private bodies and philaplorists, which is the complete opposite to Australia. I have only been to shows in manhattan so my idea of the art here is still skewed, all very white wall and clean and visually deserving to be on contemporary art daily.com. I am still yet to go see more of the smaller artist run spaces in brooklyn which is probably more exciting? PS1 seems to come up in conversation every hour here I feel, which is great that there's this big place to support younger artsits and more daring works. The openings in Chelsea are lots of fun, fun for people watching too. It's been fun meeting people i know online irl too, theres always people visiting here, unlike Melbourne which remains, at large, a bubble. I am making a small performance work during my stay here, I don't need big studio spaces so this city seems appropriate like any other city to make work in.
Maffew Lindeof course time is hard because everything is so distracting, but everything is so beautiful, im a romantic, so much romance here, it makes me happy
Anna-Sophie Bergerits funny, I have lived in other big cities
but also just yesterday in conversation
I felt again and said
how easy going new york still is for me
even with distances.
i am not saying its not challenging
and its a metropole
but I still enjoy running around on this island just going places
and you are right
its a nice flow
of people coming in, and people leaving again
would you say the environment could be better/worse for the production of your work?
let alone the question of funding for a sec
Maffew Lindethe busier the better for me, of course i would like a comfortable space which seems to be the most difficult thing to get here, space.
Anna-Sophie Bergeryes true
i feel like I just can't say. I love it here. I feel like I don't want to leave, at the same time I am not yet sure if i can fully adapt to the timemanagement here
last 6 years i spent in vienna
and we never ever made lunch appointments
or bookings. I haven't used my calendar application ever, I do now here
here s another one
how do you handle your curatorial postion in terms of running centre for style versus your artist persona and life
I am always curious about that
because I know I couldnt do it
I am so self involved haha
Maffew Lindeoh yes
Anna-Sophie Bergereven though I do acknowledge other peoples work and share it, collect it, refer to it
Maffew Lindethey are two different identities, two different gmail accounts, two different instagrams
centre for style is very young but entering a phase were i can become quite entrepreneurial, where i can email big institutions and propose a show, propose an idea and feel ok about it, because its under centre for style and not maffew linde
Anna-Sophie Bergeroh true
Maffew Lindemaffew linde is a lot more scared, like i'll include half naked photos
Anna-Sophie Bergerthat aspect is interesting
Maffew Lindecentre for style is free too, very open in its operations, but it's also this institution in itself, i dont view myself as an institutions, i dont want to brand myself/art. i want to brand CfS
so Cfs is the outsourcing
process of what you do not want to get to close to you
as an artistz
Maffew Lindei wanted to address the use of bodies in your work, why and how you use bodies, and the politics of bodies in your art
- January 18
Anna-Sophie Bergerok I am almost running out the house but I want to try to answer this while its fresh
speaking of bodies and perforance: I finally dared to ask jane, my flatmate, to be part of my performance and she immediately said yes
so I have my group assembled for the 26th
so bodies, firstly
they serve as a center part of any garmental worl
even if you chose to show a dress solely on the ground/wall the reference to a neck, an arm etc will forever be inscribed
so working in fashion for me was always a sort of sculptural approach to body.
then also the human body moves, it is not still, and I love that fact. it creates the most amazing unpredictable things when in movement, by that I mean gestures, but also what it does to the material that covers it. folds and spaces.
Anna-Sophie Bergerthis is also what interest me in performance. on the one hand, I am very interested on individuals specialities, in terms of gesture mimik and movement. the most subtle codes of body language, on the other hand, I like the simplicity, even banality of the simple movement of two arms above ones head.
Anna-Sophie Bergerso yes, i would say my interest is twofold, it is an interest in individuals, and specific behaviour of one versus another person, but also the general universal facts of a human body, arms legs, heads.
how about you? what signifies your interest in bodies?